Curse

XvArchonvX · Jul 02, 2006, 06:38 AM // 06:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sha Noran

Zealous is shit when compared to other bow strings available. ....... Thanks for pointing some of that out, but regardless the Ithas Bow is still shit.

Arguing like this is what discredits you often Sha. Just because something isn't obviously superior doesn't make it completely inferior. Just because something doesn't work the best in most situations doesn't mean that it is completely worthless. If you were saying something like "Zealous bow strings are generally less useful than the other options avaiable" you would be conveying your point without cussing, without closing your mind to possible uses, and leave your point open for exceptions to the rule. This is why so many people came down on you for statements like the one where you told people to "never" use spirits. You later came back and said that you usually shouldn't use spirits. Gross over simplifications display an oversimplified view of the situation. If you want others to believe that you have some mature comprehension of what you are arguing about, you will have to use words that express your thoughts properly or others will see you as an immature close minded fool as you have portrayed.

As for the zealous debate, lets look at it this way. Do you gain energy faster when using a zealous bow? Assuming you are attacking often, yes. Is this advantage the same as the energy gain from Zealous Daggers Tangs or Zealous Axe Hafts? No. However the gain is still there. Compare this then to the options. Sundering will increase your damage, but only by an extra couple points 20% of the time (assuming you have a perfect mod). Vampiric will do about 5 armor ignoring damage each shot and generally will keep you at your same health if shooting at normal speed, depending on your bow. If used with Barrage or something like Tiger's Fury, you have a net gain of health. The disadvantage of this is the need to switch bows whenever you stop attacking. This can cause trouble when fleeing certain situations since weapon switching is not instantaneous.

What does all this mean? There are advantages and disadvanteges to each choice. With the right build, you can be able to use more damaging attacks with a zealous bow than with other options. If your build is very light on energy consumption of course, you will not need this, but will likely be doing less damage from your skills.

My personal conclusion: Use the string that fits your build.

As for the poison debate, the same advantages and disadvantages seem to be just repeating themselves. Let me sum this up:

Advantages of Apply Poison:

Allows you to poison and use other skills at the same time.
Allows you to reapply poison without having to use an additional skill.
Allows poison to be spread to multiple enemies at no extra cost.
Does not take up an elite slot.
Energy and time spent removing poison is wasted since poison is reapplied with each attack.
If used on multiple targets, net energy per target poisoned is less than Poison Arrow.
Can be used with non-bow weapons.

Disadvantages of Apply Poison:

Cost 15 energy.
Cannot be used with other preparations.
Additional reapplication of poison may not be necessary.
If only used on one target, energy spent poisoning that target is likely more than if Poison Arrow was used.

Yes, I listed more advantages for disadvanteges, but the quantity of advantages and disadvanteges is not necessarily what makes one the skill worth or not worth using. The situation and way it is used does so. The conclusion of this, as I see it, is that depending on your build, Apply Poison may, or may not be the best choice for poisoning your enemies.

Concerning the trapping debate I believe the situation is what makes the choice of build most appropriate.

If there are ranger interupter enemies, use Oath Shot with Whirling Defenses or Distortion

If there are mesmer interupters, use Oath Shot with Mantra of Resolve.

If there are neither of these, but are many attacks taken, use Trappers' Focus with Serpent's Quickness.

Sha Noran · Jul 02, 2006, 07:30 AM // 07:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by XvArchonvX

My personal conclusion: Use the string that fits your build.

... which is what I said in my original post. Zealous is never the ideal bow option other than when running Ranger energy denial in PvP, and as I have stated around a million times already, this is a PvE guide.

Using a non-max bow in 99% of situations is ludicrous. In the situations where it's at least feasible (Oath Shot trapping I guess?) you could use a Candy Cane Bow, which has no requirement and therefore will still be doing more damage than say, an Ithas Bow, which you most certainly will not meet the req. on.

I would make more reasonable arguments if it wasn't so impossible to even hold a conversation with most of you. You think I'm a dumbass, and have no respect for anything I've written, etc. You tell me I can't just say when you're wrong, yet

Quote:

Originally Posted by Epinephrine

Some of what you said makes sense, some is questionable, some is wrong.

I'm willing to debate some things, but most of the arguments you people are making on this thread are absolutely stupid. Just stupid. No one wants to argue my use of Storm Chaser in most builds, which has actually questionable usage. You want to argue whether Poison Arrow is better than Apply Poison. Which is an absurd discussion. Which is why I stopped talking about it. Anyone who actually plays Ranger will know the difference.

I would post for hours specifically detailing each advantage of certain skills over others, but I actually play the game. I encourage you to do the same if you, for example, really think that Oath Shot trapping will get you interrupted less than Trapper's Focus trapping and is really so much better for the group. I TF trap and Alesia can keep me alive fine, along with everyone else. The damage reduction from 75% evasion doesn't make up for the traps interrupted from that 25% chance of interruption.

Epinephrine · Jul 02, 2006, 02:00 PM // 14:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sha Noran

... which is what I said in my original post. Zealous is never the ideal bow option other than when running Ranger energy denial in PvP, and as I have stated around a million times already, this is a PvE guide.

Using a non-max bow in 99% of situations is ludicrous. In the situations where it's at least feasible (Oath Shot trapping I guess?) you could use a Candy Cane Bow, which has no requirement and therefore will still be doing more damage than say, an Ithas Bow, which you most certainly will not meet the req. on.

Zealous is amazing in some PvE builds. With barrage it returns tons of energy, with Quick Shot the returns are huge, and even just with Tiger's Fury (which despite your claim is a great skill) you can get over a pip of extra energy, operating on 4.25 pips instead of 3. Bear in mind that extra energy can mean extra skill uses, bumping your damage by as much or more than a different string. I wouldn't be hard to generate enough extra energy to outdamage a Sundering string for example. Alternatively, it can allow a lower expertise investment for example, freeing attribute points and possibly boosting damage or survivability. Saying "Zealous is shit" just doesn't do it justice.

As for bows, if you are trapping you don't give a crap about your bow damage, and yes, you want a bow for Oath Shot trapping. Not everyone runs marksmanship. The roughly 1 DPS difference between a candycane bow and another bow like an Ithas bow (if firing constantly, which you won't be doing anyway in those builds) is EASILY outweighed by the extra 5 armour, or by a -2 damage reduction.

Quote:

I would post for hours specifically detailing each advantage of certain skills over others, but I actually play the game. I encourage you to do the same if you, for example, really think that Oath Shot trapping will get you interrupted less than Trapper's Focus trapping and is really so much better for the group. I TF trap and Alesia can keep me alive fine, along with everyone else. The damage reduction from 75% evasion doesn't make up for the traps interrupted from that 25% chance of interruption.

If you are implying that we don't play you are way off. Oath Shot recharges other skils too, like the Throw Dirt that will be employed contantly; 90% miss rate with 75% evasion is pretty certain safety, and the near constant blindness reduces damage very well for the group, and for yourself. SO yeah, I think it works.

As you said, we could argue each point forever; I could simply write my own guide. The effort I put into composing these replies is obviously pointless, as you aren't willing to listen to the feelings of experienced players with a good depth of play. I won't bother anymore.

For any reading, ask yourself why a guy who is writing a guide can dismiss criticism while clearly not understanding Expertise breakpoints; the 9+1 Expertise listed on half his builds serves virtually no purpose, only getting a savings on 15 and 25 cost skills, of which he either has none or a low frequency skill (like apply poison). There are numerous other faults, but such a basic error is troubling. The fact is that it's not worth my time to point all of them out - especially as you dismiss them. It's currently not a very helpful resource.

XvArchonvX · Jul 02, 2006, 02:17 PM // 14:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sha Noran

I would make more reasonable arguments if it wasn't so impossible to even hold a conversation with most of you. You think I'm a dumbass, and have no respect for anything I've written, etc. You tell me I can't just say when you're wrong, yet

I'm not sure who in particular you are talking about here, I am not trying to call you any name, nor assume you to be something so oversimplified. You have had several flaws in your guide however, so people will call you on them, no matter how much time you spent on it. Either you can deal with this like a grown mature human being or decide that an attack on your pride is too much, delete everything, and walk away. Others will not always be nice about how they point out flaws, but you can be insulted and start flinging mud back, or deal with it. I would prefer to see a bit more maturity on both parties.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sha Noran

Anyone who actually plays Ranger will know the difference.

Yes, I play a ranger. I play two. I know the difference between the two skills. I used to use Poison Arrow, but found Apply Poison to suite my uses better. Trying to discredit others based on their difference in opinion is rather insulting and a weak attempt at trying to prove you are right by making personal attacks at others.

I admit I am not THE most experienced ranger in all of Tyria, but my ranger was my first character and I have been using him for about a year now. I have capped all the Tyrian elites for Archon and have played him completely through Prophecies and halfway through Factions. Have I done absolutely everything there is to do with him everywhere? No, but I think I have enough experience to be able to know which of two skills works better for me.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sha Noran

I would post for hours specifically detailing each advantage of certain skills over others, but I actually play the game.

Yes, I also "play" the game, and I in my experience almost never get interupted using an Oath Shot build. Just because that build does work for you, doesn't mean the other doesn't.

Evilsod · Jul 02, 2006, 10:13 PM // 22:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sha Noran

Anyone who actually plays Ranger will know the difference.

No...never... out of the Ranger, Warrior, Elementalist, Ex-Monk, Assassin, Ritualist and PvP slot on this account he has the brunt of the play.

Poison Arrow has limited use. I've seen it used in ABs many times just so the Ranger could use Kindle or Read the Wind. The problem is having to use Poison Arrow to poison every target in front of you (usually 4 or above) attracts attention. Attention that recieves a Distracting Shot, as does anything that gets spammed (Flare, Vamp Touch/Bite, Stone Daggers, etc). Sure if you get Apply Poison distracted you've lost some damage been as you won't have any other Preparations.
In PvE, things can and do live for over 10 seconds, even if the damage it does is healed in a single Healing Signet you've given your squishy 2 seconds to get away. Not to mention (oh how i love this skill...) Wail of Doom from Shiro'ken Necromancers. With Apply Poison you can still poison things, Poison Arrow you can't, its a very specific example but its still an example. Been able to spread poison around without having to spam a single skill which often has a dodgy refire, slowing you down anyway, and keeping your elite slot free definatly beats it in most situations. Its only things like Forest Farming where Kindle Arrows obviously provides more damage and Poison Arrow provides steady degen where i see Poison Arrow been useful.

Sha, if your using Alesia when your trapping i honestly don't know why your using TF. She stands next to you anyway which takes practically all the attention off you. Been able to keep Warrior/Assassin bosses near constantly blinded from Throw Dirt by Oath Shot outweighes the possibilty that things in PvE we're paying attention to you. The majority of the time you get VERY little attention as a ranger and then you suddenly get all of it. Even then half the time its Spells which doesn't affect your traps anyway.

SnipiousMax · Jul 03, 2006, 01:59 AM // 01:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sha Noran

...I would make more reasonable arguments if it wasn't so impossible to even hold a conversation with most of you....Anyone who actually plays Ranger will know the difference....I would post for hours specifically detailing each advantage of certain skills over others, but I actually play the game. I encourage you to do the same....

I was gonna post more, but I'm done if this is what you think of Epine, Jeno, Sod, Lasher, and Archon.

Lasher Dragon · Jul 03, 2006, 05:17 AM // 05:17

Just to throw my ego into the ring...

That's almost all solo, with very few UW runs, no Tombs runs, no FoW farming. I'm guessing about 85% of the time I'm farming with her I'm solo, 10% or so I'm with one guildie, the other 5% I may run with a group, but it's a rare occurence and usually at the request of someone else. Yeah, I farm a lot, just not the places that require teams... kind of a loner.

I am usually always ready to help out on a mission though - I tend to get some nice drops helping others.

Sha Noran · Jul 03, 2006, 09:07 AM // 09:07

Impressive guys, but again as I have stated, numbers mean very little and unless severely provoked I see no reason to post mine.

To say it again, I'm talking about PvE here. A Ranger's role and thus skill use is very different in PvP, and that's just not what I'm talking about here.

Poison Arrow's ability to be used in combination with a damaging preperation adds a good bit of damage that cannot be ignored in PvE. Once everything is Poisoned with Apply, Apply is doing nothing. That's what you guys don't seem to be getting here.

As for Oath Shot trapping, I suppose that it is, yes, a legitimate build; that doesn't make it better. 0% chance of interruption is better than 25% chance of interruption, and if you want you could bring Whirling and Focus, then only hit Whirling if you suddenly get full agro (which shouldn't be needed more than once per 45 seconds anyhow).

TStyx · Jul 03, 2006, 11:43 AM // 11:43

What a carry on!

Thanks for the guide Sha an interesting read for a new Ranger player like me and quite fun to try the different builds. As I've played more I find I don't agree with some comments and I've changed some builds to suit myself but that's the whole idea isn't it, to get people thinking but at least giving them a starting point.

Cheers again

Sir Mad · Jul 03, 2006, 12:27 PM // 12:27

< Too lazy to upload a screeny of his H window atm

Quote:

As for Oath Shot trapping, I suppose that it is, yes, a legitimate build; that doesn't make it better. 0% chance of interruption is better than 25% chance of interruption, and if you want you could bring Whirling and Focus, then only hit Whirling if you suddenly get full agro (which shouldn't be needed more than once per 45 seconds anyhow).

I think you miss the point. Using Oath Shot for "melee" trapping (as opposed to UW trapping) allow you recharge whirling defense for example, yes, but it also allows you to spam trap. With trapper focus, you can use serpent's quickness for that purpose, but you may be a pain for your monk since stances do not stack and therefore you cannot have a defensive stance (AND unless you have EW/QZ you can't have it active all the time). That's probably not a problem for melee fighting foes, but you're screwed with ranged attacks. With oath shot, you can spam more traps but some will be interupted. Not 1/4. Less than that since the 1st trap you should use is dust trap. The result is probably the same than with serpent's quickness/traper's focus. BUT you avoid 75% of the attacks, and trust me, your monk wil enjoy that.

EDIT - And if you use whirling with your build as you suggest, then you can't use serpent's quickness, and have no way to spam traps.

XvArchonvX · Jul 03, 2006, 01:03 PM // 13:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sha Noran

Impressive guys, but again as I have stated, numbers mean very little and unless severely provoked I see no reason to post mine.

I don't think anyone is asking you to show your stats, since we are not the ones making blind accusations at you. The point was that you basically resorted to making a personal attack on the legitamacy of those who were debating you.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sha Noran

To say it again, I'm talking about PvE here. A Ranger's role and thus skill use is very different in PvP, and that's just not what I'm talking about here.

What makes you think that we brought up anything to do with PvP? The numbers shown by everyone showed experience, which, yes you can earn experience from PvP, but the majority is from PvE. If nothing else, the titles from Evilsod should show you this. There is proof that he has done every mission from Tyria and only lacks one from Cantha.

As for me personally. my experience is 80-90% PvE. I have dabbled in PvP a bit, but mostly limited to Random Arenas, Fort Aspenwood, and Alliance Battles with few exception.

True numbers don't always show the whole story, but when you make a point to accuse us of not having experience actually playing the game, the numbers showing that we have played the game is all that is needed to prove otherwise.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sha Noran

Poison Arrow's ability to be used in combination with a damaging preperation adds a good bit of damage that cannot be ignored in PvE. Once everything is Poisoned with Apply, Apply is doing nothing. That's what you guys don't seem to be getting here.

This is a point both you and I and everyone else here has said. We have heard you and presented our counter points. I have quoted this and restated this. Unless you have any other factors not taken into consideration, it really isn't necessary to repeat yourself anymore.

Sha Noran · Jul 03, 2006, 03:01 PM // 15:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by XvArchonvX

What makes you think that we brought up anything to do with PvP? The numbers shown by everyone showed experience, which, yes you can earn experience from PvP, but the majority is from PvE. If nothing else, the titles from Evilsod should show you this. There is proof that he has done every mission from Tyria and only lacks one from Cantha.

... lol. Evilsod was referring to the use of Poison Arrow in AB, which is PvP. That's what I was referring to with my comment on PvP, where I would probably agree that Apply would be more useful.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sir Mad

EDIT - And if you use whirling with your build as you suggest, then you can't use serpent's quickness, and have no way to spam traps.

Normally you would use Serpents, but if you got some ridiculous agro on you you could throw up Whirling.

Sir Mad · Jul 03, 2006, 03:01 PM // 15:01

I had read your guide untill the skills part so far so I'm a bit late for that, but here we go.

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Studded Leather: This is probably the worst set of armor a Ranger could own. Though it does physically look nice on your character, nothing looks nice on your dead character. You should note that this armor gives bonus armor against elemental attacks (as do the rest besides basic Leather) as well as a bonus against Lightning Damage. There are two factors that destroy this armor's usefullness:

1. How often in the game are you faced with Lightning Damage? ... Can't remember, can you? Gargoyles in Ascalon maybe?
2. What is the main bonus attribute of Elementalist Lightning Skills? That's right folks, armor penetration. You're better off protecting yourself from something else than trying to protect yourself against something that you can't protect yourself from in the first place.

You forgot the Wailing Lord's forest. I feel confident with a druid armor there but I know many people who don't and carry a studed leather set. About drakescale: you don't need to have all the foes with fire attacks to justify its use. I use to replace my druid set by a drakescale in the tombs for example when I have a bad dp since terrorweb dryers are among the main damage dealers.

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All of the "slaying" mods are pretty much a joke for any average Ranger or any Ranger who has not beaten the game thoroughly. I use them, but I would strongly suggest that only the expert Ranger with a thirst for further adventure even attempt to use them.

Check the price of a +20 deathbane grip to see how popular they are... I personally use 3 kinds of slaying grips: deathabne for the tombs and some parts of FoW, skelettonslaying, obviously for the seletons of FoW, and 2 pruning bows for the Wailing Lord's forest. +20% damage against all the foes of an area (nb: area, not map) is must-have if you're OK hp/AL wise and can afford it.

Sha Noran · Jul 03, 2006, 03:06 PM // 15:06

I have a Charrslaying, Dwarfslaying, Dragonslaying, Demonslaying, Deathbane Pruning and Tenguslaying. My comment in the guide was simply that it probably wouldn't be wise for a brand new Ranger to run out and buy any slaying mods until he had specific spots for their use.

EDIT:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sir Mad

You forgot the Wailing Lord's forest.

That's a good call, as nearly everything in there does deal Lightning Damage, however average Joe Ranger probably isn't going to be there on a regular basis unless he's solo'ing it, and even then I would go for the Energy that Druid's offers.

BlackOut777 · Jul 03, 2006, 06:04 PM // 18:04

Sha Noran:
Thank you for taking the time to put your findings/thoughts/tests/ideas on paper and putting it up here. I have to say, I have always enjoyed playing the Ranger but was always a bit unsure about the nitty gritty part of being a ranger. Your guide has been extremely helpful in understanding this class a bit better!! Thank you for taking the time to put it up here!!

Sha Noran · Jul 03, 2006, 06:11 PM // 18:11

BlackOut777: Thanks, I'm glad to hear it's helped you. Hopefully the discussion that followed it is also stimulating the Rangers who read it to go out and find for themselves which version of things works better for them. :-D

XvArchonvX · Jul 03, 2006, 11:11 PM // 23:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sha Noran

... lol. Evilsod was referring to the use of Poison Arrow in AB, which is PvP. That's what I was referring to with my comment on PvP, where I would probably agree that Apply would be more useful.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Evilsod

Poison Arrow has limited use. I've seen it used in ABs many times just so the Ranger could use Kindle or Read the Wind. The problem is having to use Poison Arrow to poison every target in front of you (usually 4 or above) attracts attention. Attention that recieves a Distracting Shot, as does anything that gets spammed (Flare, Vamp Touch/Bite, Stone Daggers, etc). Sure if you get Apply Poison distracted you've lost some damage been as you won't have any other Preparations.
In PvE, things can and do live for over 10 seconds, even if the damage it does is healed in a single Healing Signet you've given your squishy 2 seconds to get away. Not to mention (oh how i love this skill...) Wail of Doom from Shiro'ken Necromancers. With Apply Poison you can still poison things, Poison Arrow you can't, its a very specific example but its still an example. Been able to spread poison around without having to spam a single skill which often has a dodgy refire, slowing you down anyway, and keeping your elite slot free definatly beats it in most situations. Its only things like Forest Farming where Kindle Arrows obviously provides more damage and Poison Arrow provides steady degen where i see Poison Arrow been useful.

Only that one paragraph was in response to PvP, the rest was with respect to PvE.

As I interperet this, it is my assumption that Evilsod was implying that Apply Poison is more useful than Poison Arrow in PvE.

Pyro Master · Jul 04, 2006, 04:02 AM // 04:02

Why hasnt this been stickied yet?!

Doug Warren · Jul 04, 2006, 04:22 AM // 04:22

I just wanna know, what do you mean "interupter skills", what do they do, and where do you ge them. Also where do you get all of those traps?

Jenosavel · Jul 04, 2006, 05:41 AM // 05:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pyro Master

Why hasnt this been stickied yet?!

Because there are too many inaccuracies riddled throughout it for it to be used as a definitive guide at this point in time. It needs some refining first. With that in mind...

*cracks knuckles*

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sha Noran

NEVER put points into an attribute just to use ONE skill out of that attribute. Find another skill in a different attribute to use, then consolidate your points. A classic example of this is Tiger's Fury. People put points into beast mastery for this skill when they could easily replace it with Lightning Reflexes and consolidate their points.

Excellent advice as far as attribute points are concerned, not the best of examples. I'd point out the people who use WS for Troll Unguent alone, but that's a personal pet peeve. The reason I think Tiger's Fury is a poor example is because Tiger's Fury operates decently well at rather low attribute points, and so spare points which wouldn't meaningfully increase your focus attributes can actually give Tiger's Fury some use. Unfortunately, Lightning Reflexes is a horrible replacement for Tiger's Fury. When I first played ranger I thought it was the other way around, that Lightning Reflexes was vastly superior. After all, they both give added attack speed and Lightning Reflexes gives defenses as well. This, however, was before I understood the concept of downtime. With as little as 4 points spent, Tiger's Fury has a downtime of 3 seconds or 30%. With as much as 13 points spent supporting it, Lightning Reflexes still has a 35 second or 78% downtime. It's a huge difference and one that shouldn't be overlooked.

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NEVER have more than one preparation. They don't stack and recharge fast enough that you don't need/can’t use two.

Again, excellent advice.

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Edge of Extinction: I can't believe I actually have to list this, but I see people use it all the time. Think! You're more likely to kill your own group with it than anything else.

The only way Edge should be a threat to your party is when you're facing human enemies, and so when you are facing human enemies it's an obvious don't use Edge. However, it is an incredibly frequent thing in PvE that you will come up against enemies that vastly outnumber you and that are not human. In these cases Edge is the saving grace of God himself. The most extreme case of this is Vizunah Square. If you've never played Vizunah Square with a good team both with and without Edge, then I encourage you go see what you're missing, because it's absolutely amazing.

Aside from having human enemies, the biggest case against Edge is one against spirits in general. That would be, if you're in a mission/area that requires constant movement spirits can become a wasted skill slot. You will need to be fighting in one area for some amount of time for spirits to be worthwhile.

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Fertile Season: This spirit looks cool, but because it gives everyone the health bonus, it only drags battles out without changing the outcome.

Amen. *sigh*

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Otyugh's Cry: This shout might be nice if ALL the wild animals in the game weren't level FIVE. Completely worthless.

You've unfortunately completely missed the point of this skill... which isn't difficult considering the wording of the blasted thing's description. The true power of Otyugh's Cry is that when used it will give all pets within its range a nice armor boost. This means that teams which have several beast masters will benefit incredibly from this. When combined with Call of Protection, you're looking at pets with 100 AL against everything and 15 (assuming high beast of course) damage absorption. Any warrior would kill to have those kinds of stats while tanking.

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Primal Echoes: Besides the fact that you'll mess up your own Monks with this, PVE enemies never seem to run out of energy anyway. Waste of time that could be better spent interrupting those naughty little signets.

You're right in that this probably doesn't have too much use outside of PvP. It could be nice in a ranger-stacked team that was lacking in monks (hey, odd team make-ups do exist), but it's not something that would be commonly used for sure.

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Revive Animal: Again, looks cool, but... how many Beast Masters that even want their pet alive are you going to play with anyway? And if they want them alive, won't they bring a pet-res with them themselves? Waste of time, especially when you have to have Comfort Animal along anyway to heal your own pet…

I'd agree that Revive Animal is an awful skill, though I've got slightly different reasoning. Comfort Animal casts in 1/6 of the time of Revive Animal, and it has no recharge whereas Revive Animal has a 20 second one. Add on top of this the fact that Revive Animal has a very small radius of effect, and all the skill is really good for is resing the group's pets when those pets all decide to die on the exact same spot at the exact same time. ...so yeah, pretty useless.

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Tiger's Fury: I mentioned this above, but I'll repeat it here. This skill IS decent in certain builds that use Ranger as a secondary (i.e. W/R), but as a primary Ranger, you shouldn't ever have this. It's a Beast Mastery skill that doesn't have anything to do with your pet. Worthless.

It's not worthless because it operates well at extremely low attribute point investments. Once you've pumped all your attribute points as high as you can, those three spares that don't fit anywhere can up Tiger's Fury (with a rune) to a 70% time coverage for faster attack rate. That's more than worthwhile enough to use with or without a pet.

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Marksman's Wager: Way, way too many of your arrows are going to get blocked, evaded or dodged (not to mention obstructed) for this skill to be one you can depend upon. Most of the time you'll lose more than you gain.

Even if you consistently gain enough, I think one of this skill's biggest problems is that rangers have one of the best energy situations of any class. Rangers aren't too desperate for energy-management elites, and thus can get much better use out of others.

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Oath Shot: Possibly the worst Ranger PvE skill in the game, definitely the worst Ranger PvE Elite. As I stated with Marksman's Wager, far too many of your arrows are blocked, evaded or dodged for this to be dependable. If the skill read "The next shot you fire blah blah blah" you could use this with Called Shot to up your chances of it working. Unfortunately, Oath Shot is the shot you have to hit with, and your chances of this helping you at all are nil.

Here you are very wrong. As a ranger you should know which targets you will and will not be able to hit and when. Thus, if Oath Shot required you use it on whatever target you happened to be attacking before hand, then yes. It would suck. However, a little battlefield awareness means that Oath Shot will hit, and it will hit nearly every single time. Why? Because you're not using it unless you know you're going to hit with it.

When you use that bit of common sense and have Oath Shot hitting every single time, then it effectively cuts down all of your skills recharge times to Oath Shot's own recharge time of 20 seconds. When you take into account the huge number of ranger skills which have recharge times much higher than 20 seconds, you get one very powerful elite skill. Here's a short list of skills which get an incredible efficiency boost:

Skill - Before - After (all skills based off of 12 attribute points)
Throw Dirt - 33 second, 72% downtime - 8 second, 3% downtime
Whirling Defense - 42 second, 70% downtime - 2 second, 10% downtime
Dryder's Defenses - 50 second, 83% downtime - 10 second, 50% downtime

Traps don't necessarily have a downtime as much as just a recharge time, so they have to be looked at a bit differently. Let's take Barbed Trap for instance. It wouldn't appear to benefit from Oath Shot since they both have a recharge of 20 seconds. However, the timing of the actual use of Oath Shot can pretty much double the efficiency of it. When Barbed Trap is used and immediately followed by Oath Shot, a second Barbed Trap can be used again right away. Then Barbed Trap and Oath Shot recharge side-by-side so that around 20 seconds later the process can be repeated all over again. Oath Shot allows for a very fast cycling of all traps on your bar.

It's a similar case with spirits. When you do decide to bring a spirit along, the main downfall of them is that they die quickly and have an incredibly long recharge time. Oath Shot negates this weakness and becomes one of the only reliable ways to keep a needed spirit in effect.

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Practiced Stance: This might be an ok skill if it weren't an Elite, but because it is you should never use it. Of course, people tend to bring up its effectiveness when combined with Choking Gas, but honestly… just bring Broad Head Arrow if you’re that desperate.

Never say never. /cliche

Broad Head Arrow can't act as a mobile Maelstrom which doesn't trigger AOE flight. Choking Gas can, and Practiced Stance allows you to pretty much wipe out Choking Gas's considerable downtime. When your party is in need of an AOE interrupt, Choking Gas + Practiced Stance is the only way to go.

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Barrage: Ugh, I'm gonna take some crap for this because I know there are a lot of Barrage fans out there, but I'm gonna lay it out there for you. Barrage is a crappy Elite. Maybe if it were a normal skill that cost a bit extra, it would be ok. But it strips your preparations, and for what? 6 arrows. Sounds great.... until you begin to try to remember when the last time there were 6 PVE enemies close enough together to take the hits. You're much better off with Poison Arrow or Melandru's Arrows.

Play in Cantha much? If there's one trait of Cantha that strikingly separates it from Tyria it's the number of enemy bodies packed into small places. Barrage can easily and consistently hit 3 enemies in Cantha and often hits many more. Here are some numbers (though I wouldn't include them in a guide itself, as they were rounded a bit and thus could be more accurate, however for simple illustrative purposes they're fine)

Skill - DPS - DPS with RTW - DPS with Kindle - pips of energy consumed (considered with 12 Marks, 10 WS, and 13 expertise; pips of energy is before preparations are used; DPS calculated is in addition to the normal bow damage)
Barrage (1 hit) - 6.5 DPS - 3 pips
Barrage (2 hit) - 18.4 DPS - 3 pips
Barrage (3 hit) - 30.2 DPS - 3 pips
Barrage (4 hit) - 42.1 DPS - 3 pips
Barrage (5 hit) - 54 DPS - 3 pips
Barrage (6 hit) - 65.8 DPS - 3 pips
Barrage (7 hit) - 77.7 DPS - 3 pips
Poison Arrow - 8 DPS - 12.5 DPS - 16.5 DPS - 1 pip**
Melandru's Arrows - 6 DPS - 16.5 DPS against enchanted foes - .4 pips
Determined Shot - 1.7 DPS - 6.2 DPS - 10.2 DPS - .6 pips
Focused Shot - 11 DPS - 15.5 DPS - 19.5 DPS - 3 pips
Hunter's Shot - 8.6 DPS - 13.1 DPS - 17.1 DPS - 1.2 pips
Marauder's Shot - 5 DPS - 9.5 DPS - 13.5 DPS - 2.5 pips
Needling Shot - 4.2 DPS - 8.7 DPS - 12.7 DPS - 1.5 pips
Melandru's Shot - 4.2 DPS - 8.7 DPS - 12.7 DPS - 2.14 pips
Penetrating Attack - 5 DPS* - 9.5 DPS - 13.5 DPS - 5 pips
Power Shot - 3.6 DPS - 8.1 DPS - 12.1 - 2.5 pips
Precision Shot - 3.6 DPS - 8.1 DPS - 12.1 DPS - 2.5 pips
Splinter Shot - 2.6 DPS - 7.1 DPS - 11.1 DPS - 3 pips
Sundering Attack - 5 DPS* - 9.5 DPS - 13.5 DPS - 5 pips

Uh, yeah. So it's quite clear that while Barrage isn't the be-all end-all elite for rangers, it most certainly isn't the worst one either. In areas where enemies are all too plentiful, which a good portion of Cantha qualifies for, Barrage can quickly becomes a power-house attack skill.

*I didn't take into account the armor penetration, which means these values will be quite low. However, calculating it with AP was more effort than I felt like putting into this reply.
**If the team is doing well and enemies are dying quickly, the energy costs of Poison Arrow sky-rocket

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Concussion Shot: Was there a typo when making this or what? 25 energy for an interrupt, some damage, and maybe Dazed? This skill might be ok for 10 energy... maybe even 15. But for 25 energy you might as well strip your skill bar and just bring Concussion Shot, Troll Unguent, and Marksman's Wager (oo... maybe a staff with an energy bonus too... could I be on to a new build?!?![/sarcasm]) because your out of energy right off the bat.

At 9 expertise the 25 energy cost drops to 16. At 13 expertise it drops down to 12. So while this is one of the most expensive ranger skills in the game, saying that it's going to wipe out your energy instantly is quite the exaggeration. Concussion Shot has the cost it does because it is an incredibly powerful skill. It's the only non-elite ranger skill which causes dazed, and when used properly can be a great asset. No, you're not going to use it to try and catch Orison like you might with Savage Shot, but it is absolutely fantastic when faced with enemies that have one or two long-cast spells on their bar. All it takes is one guaranteed interrupt to completely shut down a caster for a good period of time, and thus this skill is fantastic against nearly all eles, a good portion of the game's bosses, and that annoying corrupted Kuunavang.

Concussion Shot may require a more specific scenario to shine than do other ranger interrupts. However, PvE allows you to tailor yourself to each and every enemy you will face and thus makes Concussion Shot a great skill.

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Hunter's Shot: Now this skill is, admittedly, good in PVP because everyone is always running around. Unfortunately, trying to catch a moving enemy to cause bleeding in PvE just isn't worth it. There is a damage bonus, but you're much better off with Penetrating Attack.

Agreed 100%. Hunter's Shot is nice for it's low energy cost, but rarely will give the bleeding outside of specific cases (such as soloing with Ignite Arrows or having a Fire Storm ele around).

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Precision Shot: A lot of people use this because, "Hey, its just like Power Shot, but better!" If only this were true. Note in the fine print that this skill tells you that it's "easily interrupted". This translates to "if you're taking fire, this skill WILL NOT WORK". You would think that you would be able to get the arrow off without being interrupted... but you can't.

It's an unfortunate truth, to be sure.

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Choking Gas: This skill would be really nice if it lasted just a little bit longer. As it is, you can't interrupt enough skills with it to make it worth it. You could, feasibly, use this combined with Practiced Stance... but you're much better off with Punishing Shot or even BHA.

As I mentioned earlier, Choking Gas is the only AoE interrupt in the game aside from Maelstrom and it doesn't trigger AoE flight like Maelstrom does (unless you're trying to be a machine gunner, which isn't usually the case). With Practiced Stance, Choking Gas's downtime is reduced to the time it takes you to squat down and cast the preparation. When you're in an area with numerous enemy nukers then a good Choking Gas ranger is the difference between light and day. The first area which springs to mind is the Fire Island Chain where there's at least one area swarming with Meteor-Shower-packing fire imps.

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Frozen Soil: Yet another PVP favorite that is useless in PVE. Trust me, you'll only stop yourself or others on your team from getting rezed.

This will remain true until ANet starts putting a res sig on each and every enemy. If that day ever arrives I do believe I will cry like a baby.

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Healing Spring: This is actually usable in PVP, but I would strongly recommend you leave it behind for PVE. Healing your allies isn't your job. The easily interrupted part in particular finishes it off as worthless. Bring Troll Unguent and be happy you did when it saves your ass.

Healing Spring isn't the greatest most of the time, but it could be beneficial if there's a minion master around. Still, it requires the same protections any trap would, and I can't say I've seen too many groups that combine a minion master and a trapper. If you ever find yourself in that set-up though, it'd be something to consider.

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Muddy Terrain: Monsters can, I suppose, feasibly stop you from running away or by them with this. As far as real people using it.... why bother?

I've never figured it out myself.

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Nature's Renewal: Talk about suicide. This will destroy your own Monk's (not to mention Mesmer and Necro…) build long before effecting the enemy.

Unless you're using a team composed entirely of rangers and warriors, in which case you've probably got some other problems to be worrying about.

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Debilitating Shot: As I've stated before, PVE enemies have ridiculous amounts of energy anyway, and they mysteriously never seem to run out. Maybe if this skill had a variable... but 10? Get out of here. Even energy starved Warriors and Rangers laugh at the loss of 10 energy. Worthless.

Having played both PvP and PvE I can say that I'm really not convinced that PvE enemies have more energy than PvP ones do. The problem is that baby-sitting any single enemy to keep them at 0 energy and thus useless makes you just as useless as they are. In PvE you're better off just killing the foe than trying to keep them at 0 energy.

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Fur Lined: This is an interesting set of armor indeed. It gives bonus armor vs. elemental attacks as well as an even better bonus when faced with Cold Damage. Not bad, but not particularly great... until you start to think strategically. I have seen Ranger's successfully use this armor set combined with the spirit Winter to effectively reduce their elemental damage to nil. A pretty neat idea, but in my opinion it's not worth carrying the spirit around for. This set might also be for you if you find yourself only using your Ranger in the Shiverpeak areas, i.e. Sorrow's Furnace.

It's nifty to use with Greater Conflagration, Winter, and Mantra of Frost for soloing as a ranger. I used it to great effect when doing the Meguuma Jungle Titan quest with a 2-man party. Like you said though, it's probably not something to be doing all the time.

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Drakeskale: This armor also has its advantages, but their numbers are less than that of the Fur Lined. Giving bonus armor vs. elemental attacks and a further bonus vs. Fire Damage, it might be used effectively in the Fire Island area. Unfortunately, very little of the game is played there. It should be noted that Greater Conflagration could be used in combination with this armor to limit damage... but it's not worth dragging the spirit around and it's definitely not worth blowing your Elite on.

I'd agree that this one isn't worth it. If you're going to be bringing Greater Conflag for damage reduction purposes, you might as well go all out and bring Winter, Mantra of Frost and a Frostbound set instead.

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Druid's: Finally, we arrive at the best armor choice for most Rangers. This armor gives the standard non-Leather bonus against Elemental damage, and also provides your energy-starved Ranger with bonus energy. The advantage of this armor over the others is hardly worth getting into; the difference should be clear. I would strongly recommend that you use this armor as opposed to the others. Sha's main set of armor is a 15k set of Marhan’s Grotto Druid's dyed pink. It looks good, it keeps me alive, and it gives me the energy to take out my opponents.

As far as Prophecies is concerned, you're right. This is really the only set to consider for normal play.

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Explorer’s: Explorer’s is a really odd armor set to me. It gives you a small amount of additional bonus health, but that’s it. If you need more health, get a rune, or a mod for your bow, not this armor. Energy is what Ranger’s are starved for, so Druid’s is still a better route.

I really disagree that rangers are energy starved. Elementalists are energy starved (hence why they get Energy Storage). Monks can be energy starved. Mesmers can be energy starved. With decent to high Expertise, however, a ranger should rarely have energy problems.

The interesting thing which the Explorer's set offers is the ability for rangers to confidently use a Superior-Major rune combo. Being a hard target in the back-lines always made the Sup-Major combo a possibility. However, there was always the off chance that you'd come under heavy fire and go down rather quickly. This armor set can negate some of that, especially once DP starts coming into the mix.

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Sentry’s: This armor’s bonus offers an additional 10 armor while your Ranger is in a stance. That’s decent I suppose… but if you’re in a stance, you’re generally already evading a good percentage of damage anyway. There are better options, particularly if you’d like additional armor, such as…

The only time I can think of when this would be nice is when you're using Tiger's Fury. With its tiny downtime and its IAS, it's a rather nice stance to have up continuously. It's not for everyone all the time, but it definitely is a common scenario that would benefit from the Sentry's armor.

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Scout’s: Now this armor is actually decent. If Druid’s wasn’t so incredibly just what a Ranger needs, this would be the armor of choice. If you’re doing anything reasonable with your Ranger (i.e. NOT Barrage) you’ll be under the effect of a Preparation all the time, meaning you’ll have bonus armor all the time. That’s a big thumbs up from me… but Druid’s is still better. :-P

No need to imply that Barrage usage is being unreasonable. There are definitely times when Barrage is an excellent skill.

That point aside, this armor's usefulness comes down to the fortitude vs. defense mod argument. Is it better to have extra health or extra armor? How much extra health is equivalent to how much extra armor? It really depends on what the enemies you're facing at the moment are doing, and I'm not sure you can make a definitive statement one way or the other. Sometimes one will be better and sometimes the other will.

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In summary, I would suggest the Druid's above all else. If you find a reason to use one of the others instead, please tell me. I honestly can't think of any that are strategically sound.

I'd suggest Druid's first as well, since it will be the most versatile armor. If you were going to only invest in one armor set for your ranger, you'd probably be best off with Druids. However, there are definitely good reasons to use the Sentry's, the Scout's, or the Frostbound armor.

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All the different types of bows and bow mods in the game have a purpose and place. The difficult thing is to choose a set of four that you can keep with you on your quick-switch keys that will take care of you in most situations.

Golden advice right there. I'd just like to state plainly what was implied in there but might be missed by some: you'll probably need a collection of bows far larger than 4 and will change which four are on your quick-switch keys as you switch builds or in town between areas.

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Longbow: We'll start with my favorite type of bow: the Longbow. As it's name implies, it has a long range; in fact, the longest in the game. There is no trick to this. Longbows have the longest range of any weapon in the game. It's commonly thought that your range with one of these fine weapons is about an aggro bubble and a half, but if you have the height advantage you can shoot much further than that. I personally have shot foes up to two aggro bubbles away from me. For pulling, there is no other option. Period.

I'd triple X-out that "Period." since for pulling there is absolutely no difference between a Flatbow and a Longbow. The rest here is good though, especially the bit about height advantage. Hitting an enemy from 2 aggro circles away is priceless.

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Now that I've made that clear and highlighted the best part of the bow, we'll go through it's defects. It's long range forces each of your arrows into a high arc, giving enemies an unfortunately long time to dodge your attacks. The time between arrows has been generally agreed to be about 2.4 seconds, which seems bad, but you have to understand that with a Ranger, your rate of fire is going to be slow no matter what, and will be strongly affected by what skills you’re using. The fastest of the bows (the short bow) only fires arrows every 2 seconds. In my opinion, the extra range is worth the wait.

At times it may be worth the wait, at others it simply isn't. After all, that wait equals out to roughly a 20% damage increase which is quite a lot. People would laugh a damaging ranger into the ground if they didn't customize their bow for that extra 20%, so why would you limit yourself from an extra 20% by not weapon-swapping when possible? There are definitely times to avoid a Longbow.

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Oftentimes, people make the unfortunate mistake in assuming that the Flatbow is somehow like the short bow; not so. It fires much faster than a longbow, but sacrifices accuracy to achieve this. The arc of your shots is much, much higher, which means that your arrows will not compensate for enemy movement nearly as well as they would with a longbow.

With moving enemies at aggro bubble ranger or further, the Flatbow will almost never hit. However, keeping a Vampiric Flatbow on hand for when your target is stationary is an excellent idea. With the fastest possible rate of attack and the longest range, the Flatbow can be a very powerful weapon when used properly.

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Horn Bow: The horn bow's range hovers somewhere in-between short and medium. It fires arrows rather slowly, but it’s unique attribute makes up for this in spades. Unlike any other type of bow, the Horn Bow has 10% armor penetration even when completely un-modded. It is often used for Ranger Spike (in PVP) for this reason, but in PVE the lack of range still leaves this bow under the Longbow as far as usefulness.

This bow's limited usefulness isn't necessarily it's range, but rather it's horrendous rate of attack. Unless you're using skills which ignore refire rate, then the Hornbow outperforms all other bows. When you are using such skills, however, it's absolutely fantastic. These cases include: PvP spiker (as was mentioned), Quick Shot/machine gunner ranger, and a Tiger's Fury Barrager.

I also thought I should note that the Hornbow has the exact same range as the Composite Bow and weighs in at a little over 1 1/4 aggro bubbles on even terrain.

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Other Horn Bows: Ivory Bow, Half Moon Bow, Shadow Bow

Scratch that. The Halfmoon is actually a Short Bow, not a Hornbow.

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Recurve Bow: The recurve bow is a decent bow for normal combat, but has only medium range and medium firing rate. To be honest, if you’re not using a longbow, you might as well get the fastest firing rate you can, and the recurve bow isn’t going to give that to you.

The Recurve bow has one case in which it is the only bow to consider. Interrupting. The Recurve has the fastest arrow flight, making it the optimal bow for interrupters. After all, interrupts ignore the normal refire of a bow and thus make flight-time and position the only factors determining your interrupt's speed of delivery. Since an interrupter can function better the closer they are to a target anyway, the lack of range on an interrupter's bow is of little consequence.

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Short Bow: Short bows have, as the name implies, a very short range. The enemy you are shooting has to be within your aggro bubble or closer, depending on the elevation difference. Their range alone makes me despise them, simply because a Ranger's biggest advantage comes from the fact that he or she has the ranged advantage. There are, however, some benefits to using a short bow.

They possess one of the quickest refire rates in the game, and at such a close range, there is nearly no arrow fly time. Arc is also nearly nil because at such close range, your arrow doesn't have time to go up. This bow is often the backup bow for Rangers, used in case of close-quarters combat.

You're absolutely right here in that short bows are a prime bow for close-quarters combat but not what you'd want to make your primary weapon. I would say that hating them is a bit severe, though you're entitled to your opinion there. If I don't have a Flatbow ready in a quick-swap spot, then I always have at least one shortbow at the ready. There really is no replacement for that 20% damage bonus from the fastest refire rate, especially when that 20% is a boost across all damage, preps and vamp mods included.

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Ascalon Bow: Ascalon Bows are dangerous because they technically don't fall under any category per se. The only way to obtain an Ascalon Bow is either from a trader, collector, or weapon-smith. There is one very pressing reason to never use them: you don't know what kind of bow it really is. Some Ascalon Bows are short bows, others are longbows. You would have to experiment to decide, and it really isn't worth it when you can get much better bows without too much effort.

There are plenty of resources to be found now which cut out the guess work as to which Ascalon bows are which bow-types. The easiest is GuildWiki, where you can find out what type of Ascalon bow each collector is offering. After all, the only time people really use Ascalon bows is when they're looking for a cheap max bow and thus turn to collectors.

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Candy Cane Bow: This bow was available exclusively during the “Wintersday” event of 2005. With a set damage of 15-15 and no req., it actually does have some usability, for both interrupting and for use in a trap group. However, it is a Short Bow in type, and should not be used for pulling.

This bow is really usable any time your bow damage doesn't particularly matter, though there may be better bows to be had for such cases. There are always the odd ball drops or Prophecies quest rewards (that if you're like me, you never kept and later hated yourself for) which offer damage reduction and the like. Depending on your situation, one of those might or might not be preferable.

I wouldn't suggest the Candy Cane Bow for interrupting, however, as a recurve is much nicer than a shortbow.

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Note that base damage mods that are unconditional are extremely, extremely rare. They were removed from the game as a drop, but the existing ones remain. Don’t expect to ever even see one.

I think you've got a bit too much generalization here. Some base mods were removed from the game, and it might be beneficial to separate between those that have and those that haven't.

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My personal opinion on base mods is that it really doesn’t matter which one you have, as long as you have one. 15^50% is nice and all, but 20% while hexed is just as viable, considering how much you’re hexed in late game areas.

I completely disagree here. If anything, the base mods are the most important aspect to consider when getting a new bow, as they will be the only ones you can't change. When it comes to deciding which base mod is better than which others, the thing to consider is controllability. Can you control whether or not the condition is met and how easily can you do so? The harder to control mods do get a higher benefit to compensate, and thus might be nice to have on hand. However, if you're looking to streamline your bow collection and keep it to a minimum number of useful bows, you'll want the versatility of things like 15^50, 15 while in stance, or 15 while enchanted. This way you're in control of when you get your bonus and thus can press to be constantly operating at maximum power.

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-The Elemental Bow Strings are nice as they give you an advantage over enemies in generally every area of the game if you have an assortment. It is true that the Conjure series of Elementalist skills (i.e. Conjure Flame, Conjure Frost, etc.) does work with bows using these mods, but the damage bonus isn't worth the skill slot in my opinion.

There are some enemies which have a certain elemental weaknesses, but I find a more common use of an elemental string for me is for use against warriors who have the possibility of extra armor vs. physical damage types.

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-Vampiric is only worth it under certain circumstances and using certain skills (i.e. Barrage), but you almost have to have 5/-1 and a bow that shoots fast to be making up for the health you lose due to it being there in the first place.

Vampiric definitely is one of those strings that must be max to be worthwhile, however the strength of Vampiric string is really quite impressive. It's like having a permanent preparation up that adds 5 armor-ignoring damage to all of your attacks, except that it can stack with your normal preparations.

No matter what you're doing, if you're interested in pumping out the numbers then be sure to have a Vampiric weapon around.

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-Sundering is popular, and for good reason; Ranger's have trouble against foes with serious armor, and an automatic penetration is nice. Honestly, if you don’t take the elemental route, there aren’t many other choices.

I don't know how else to say this. Sundering is crap.

+20% armor penetration against a 60AL target will increase your bow damage (assuming 12 Marks) by 3.4 to 6.4 damage per attack. Against a 100AL target you'll get 3.1 to 5.7 extra damage per attack. Assuming 16 Marks against a 60AL target you'll get an extra 4.9 to 9.2 damage, and against a 100AL target you'll get 5 to 8.3 extra damage.

So at best, we can expect a Sundering mod to give us a +9.2 attack 10% of the time. Under more normal circumstance, we can be expecting somewhere around a +5 damage 10% of the time. Now compare that to a Vampiric mod which gives a +5 damage per attack 100% of the time, and there is absolutely no question as to which mod is better for dealing damage.

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-Zealous is never worth it. Ranger's have enough trouble with Energy as it is to be sacrificing another Regen (leaving you at only two!) to try and gain it back with your arrows. You don't fire fast enough to make up for it.

Er... you do know you can do the math for this right?

1 pip regen = 1 energy / 3 seconds
The Hornbow, with the slowest refire would give you 1 energy every 2.6 seconds. The Longbow or Recurve would give you 1 energy every 2.4 seconds, and the Shortbow or Flatbow would give you 1 energy every 2 seconds.

So how exactly are you not firing fast enough to make up for it, if even the slowest bow mathematically comes out ahead energy-wise?

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-The strings the prolong condition duration have obvious uses; if you’re build uses that condition predominately, then one of these may be for you.

These definitely have a place on a degen ranger's bar. The interesting thing to note is that any time you pass on a condition these trigger, so even skills like Signet of Agony and Plague touch can benefit from having a bow equipped (yes, if you have a Barbed bow on when you inflict bleeding on yourself with Signet of Agony, the bleeding duration is increased. Then the duration gets increased again when you pass it on to an enemy via Plague Touch).

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-The Marksmanship bonus is decent, but there are better options. Note that this is not an "all the time" and therefore will not boost your stats or help you meet the req. on a bow you are one attribute level short of.

No, it's not decent. It even out does the Sundering String as far as worthlessness goes. The Marksmanship grip does not increase the bow's base damage or chance of critical hit when it triggers, and there isn't a single bow attack which gains more than a +1 damage from a 1 point increase in Marksmanship. That means that at best you're getting +.2 damage per skill you use.... utter crap.

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-Fortitude is one of those all-time favorites. The extra health is nice no matter what, though anything less that 25 only gives you about one extra hit's worth of survival. An interesting note on Fortitude bonuses is that they are not effected by DP, and therefore as your DP increases, the help that these provide increases greatly.

The point about DP is a particularly nice one.

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-The three that give you bonus armor are not my personal favorite as there are plenty of points in the game where armor doesn't seem to help anyway. The only one I would ever use is Defensive, as the other two are too situational to be consistantly effective.

I personally would suggest Defensive over Shelter or Warding as well. Whether Defensive or Fortitude is a better mod, however, could be the subject of its own guide and I won't touch it here.

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-The Enchanting bow grip is an enigma to me because Ranger's have no enchantment spells. Your secondary may provide you with some to use occasionally, but really it’s not worth using your bow grip slot of this mod.

The only use for this thing is with Conjure builds or Judge's Insight builds... however, the real weakness of those is stripping, since you obviously can't cover your enchantment, and this grip does little to help with that problem.

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-All of the "slaying" mods are pretty much a joke for any average Ranger or any Ranger who has not beaten the game thoroughly. I use them, but I would strongly suggest that only the expert Ranger with a thirst for further adventure even attempt to use them.

I agree that these mods are pretty much a joke. Unless you plan on extensive farming against a particular enemy type, I'd just ignore the slaying mods. To create a collection large enough to make efficient use of these mods simply isn't worth the investment when there are already so many other mod combinations that are important to have on hand.

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I am frequently asked, when someone is making a Ranger, what type of bow I use. The answer is complicated, as I have a set of around fifteen bows at the moment (and growing). Since my Ranger is my main and favorite character, it is worth it to me to invest in the –slaying mod series, but for most Rangers, this is a bit over the top.

As far as the base bows I use, nearly everything is a longbow. Longbows, in PvE, are simply the best choice. A Ranger’s best friend, as I have stated, is his RANGE. My only other types of bows are Hornbows, as they are truly best for a Ranger spike in PvP (that’s another discussion altogether, this remains a PvE thread).

My own collection is similar in size, though I recently trimmed the fat and brought it down to 10 bows. I think it's interesting to note that I have not a single slaying mod and still managed to find more than 10 different bow combinations that I absolutely need.

I'd also like to comment that it is never a good idea to make your entire bow collection out of one kind of bow. The different bow types all have different strengths, and thus its a very good idea to have different bow types catering to different situations you may encounter.

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Bow grip is slightly debatable, as some prefer the +5 armor over the +30 health (not to say theses are the only good options, as the Marksmanship and other mods are viable, but these are the two people get stuck between choosing). I will continue to argue that the +30 health is far superior in late game PvE, particularly when one has acquired DP. The extra health gives you and your monks a big help against Degen, which will give you more trouble than direct damage in many cases.

This paragraph would be pure gold if you simply deleted what was inside those parenthesis. As said above, the Marksmanship grip is utter crap.

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As for bow string, it too is debatable. Many contend that Sundering is worthless (particularly self-proclaimed “pro” players) and on a Warrior, I would agree it is not the best choice. However, in the world of Rangers, we are left with few other options.

*coughvampiriccough* Many contend that Sundering is crap because it can mathematically be proven to be so. I already went over that somewhere above though.

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If your favorite build is one involving a particular condition, I would strongly recommend using the corresponding bow string (I have both a Silencing and a Poisonous bow).

Good advice.

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If you are not a fan of conditions, then you are left with only two options (for your general purpose bow). You could go elemental, and use a set of two (preferably three) different elemental bows, or you could go with Sundering.

I'd say you're left with 3 choices. An elemental, a zealous, or a vampiric.

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As a Ranger you will have trouble dealing damage vs. heavily armored monsters (i.e. Dwarves), but even with a perfect Sundering bow, you will not see a noticeable change in damage dealt. However, nearly every monster in the game does have a weakness and a resistance to some element or another, therefore using a fiery bowstring will increase your damage considerably against a Dwarf, as they are weak to fire. An icy bowstring would be a poor choice, as they are strong against cold damage. The opposite is true against Titans, who are strong against fire, and weak to cold. Having both a fiery and an icy bow gives you a considerable advantage against most foes in the game (I also keep an earth damage bow around, for those times when its difficult to tell whether icy or fiery would be better).

Using an enemy's elemental weaknesses to your advantage is very nice indeed, as you can get anywhere between 150% damage to 200% damage increases depending on the enemy and the element. However, if you don't want to invest the time and money into making a complete set that spans all elements and needed bow-types, then the Vampiric mod acts as a fantastic way to cut through the armor of high-armored foes. This is why it's so popular in PvP, after all.

After all of that, I'd like to say that I hope this begins to shed some light for you as to why people are saying what they're saying in this thread. You have a lot of good info in your guide, Sha Noran, and that's why I made a point to reply to everything within the chunk I replied to whether or not there was anything to add. We're not here to make personal attacks against you; however, there are some rather serious flaws in this guide which need to be fixed before it can become a good resource. I want to thank you for the time you spent collecting this information together for new players, and I hope that this post will help you begin refining it into the great guide it has the potential to become.